we do projects that combined humor and technology to sell better stories, make the world less horrible. so day job permanent job, and between sleep job. it's all i think about. i want to be one of those makers, not one of the stickers >> how has having a black president affected your work? >> well, it gives me one other job that is accessible now, which is great. you can add that to the list of the ag and athletes and sassy black woman, also president. that is pretty cool. expanded the range. it is a fun and proud image. it also created some challenges. president obama as a symbol of massive racial progress is often overstated. so it makes the argument more complicated. our work here is finished as america in the great racial project of equal opportunity. it really isn't, and so having a black president is a shortcut to avoid the difficult conversations and work that we still have to do as a nation. great progress has been achieved, but there is still so much more to go. obama is at challenging figure. he makes us to more than we really have. >> how to be black is the name of the book.